enigmaticblues

That's a rather interesting theory. So if he'd been wearing shoes with lifts, gaining those additional inches, would that have made him a lead, or just a hopeful guy?

All the females in Buffy and Angel are short, so next to Buffy he did look tall. But once you had Spike, Angel, and Hamilton in the same spot you could really see a height difference. (Adam Baldwin even made DB look short)

Just curious as how tall counts as super tall. I have younger brothers that make me look like a tiny person (6'4", 6'7", and 6'1").

I think over six feet counts as super tall, at least in my book.

You'll notice that in the movies, the short actors who are leads are almost always shot so they look taller. (Mel Gibson, Sylvester Stallone, and Tom Cruise to name a few.) I think you have to at least look like you're over six feet to play a romantic lead.

And it tickled my sense of humor. ;)

BY JOVE I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT!!!

LOL...

You may well be right.

In reality the height difference between Buffy and Spike is almost perfect. SMG looks ridiculous next to DB or MB and looks exactly right next to JM.

In fact she's so short that a Buffy/Jonathan romance would not be out of the question. Or Buffy/Timmy, Buffy/Willow Ufgood, Buffy/Frodo ...

ROTFLMHO! Ah, yes. Buffy/Frodo. I can see it now.

And I agree. I do like a guy to be taller than I am by a good couple inches, but you don't want more than that. It just makes kissing (and other things) awkward, IMHO.

Actually that makes sense. There's also the fact that Buffy seemed to act weaker when she was around Angel and Riley.

Heck with Riley she outright pretended to be weaker than she was. Angel and Riley could do the big strong man deal and Buffy did the Slayer equivalent of the helpless little woman.

Not to mention the fact that both of them wanted Buffy to comply with thier wishes and they made decisions without her. Angel took back his humanity and erased her memory of that day without even thinking about consulting her (a mistake he repeats later with EVERBODY re Connor) .

Riley seems to think that Buffy's slaying is equivalent to what he does with the Initative or even less. He later seems to act as if Buffy is supposed to blow off her mother's illness and the hellgod problems to pay attention to him. IOW, he thinks he rates higher than an apocalypse. Later when he comes back, he expects her to just jump to help him (which she does ) . Like when later Angel shows up and then expects her to just jump into his arms (which she also does).

Angel and Riley make Buffy weak. Instead of being a partner who she can lean on when she needs to and vice versa they are distractions and sometimes outright threats.

Riley put her and her family and friends at risk by going to the vamp brothel. While the vamp hos might not have planned to turn him (because they would lose a customer) , one could have got it into thier head to turn him to get to her . And he would have been invited in as a trusted friend and been able to catch the Scoobies and company off guard. Not to mention that someone could have caught him off guard and tortured him for info on them or used him as a hostage.

When Angel was poisoned , Buffy first tried to kill Faith and then fed herself to Angel in order to save him. While I understand the sentiment , in the long view it was foolish. The Salyer line ran through Faith and if Buffy had died then the world would be without a good Slayer. While it could be argued that she did the same thing in the Gift , she went to her death that time leaving behind a protector of the Hellmouth-Spike. Angel would've left Sunnydale if Buffy had died since he was already going to before he was poisoned therefore leaving the Hellmouth minus one super powered protector. He wouldn't have stayed because when given a chance to protect the Hellmouth after her death , he went off to a monastery or something. Wouldn't it be a more fitting tribute to her to take care of her friends and family?

One other aspect to how Angel makes her weak. When Buffy came back from the dead he called her and told her to meet him. She just got back from the dead , wouldn't the right thing to do be to go to her , not make her come to you?

It seems like for a feminist icon , Buffy acts very weak around the official boyfriends. One of the reasons that overshadowed her relationship with Spike is the entire Big strong man/weak little woman relationships she had with Angel and Riley.

Spike seemed to want a relationship of equals . When faced with that and a man who didn't impose his will on her , she went overboard and became abusive in a backlash.

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I think you've got something there. Both the Angel and Riley relationships were at least partly based on Buffy's reluctance to accept the Slayer role and all that went with it. She wanted (esp. in S1) to be a "real teenager" and having a big, strong macho boyfriend was a way to keep that illusion of herself as an ordinary girl alive. Both Angel and Riley enjoyed and fed this vision of Buffy as the "weaker" partner. Both saw and treated her, in some ways, as a "little girl." In Angel, this is somewhat excusable, given the 240-some-year age difference...but mostly it had to do with him being a self-absorbed wanker. Riley, on the other hand, was just your typical macho shithead.

Spike was different in that he saw her as an equal and loved that. He loved her strength, her power, the fact that she was not an ordinary girl. In fact, he loved the things about her that Buffy couldn't accept in herself, which is why she couldn't accept his love. By rejecting Spike, she rejected the idea that her Slayer power, the thing that made her different, was essential to who she was and was lovable. The casting choice of an actor who did not physically tower over SMG just reinforces this difference between Spike and the two "official" boyfriends.

Very thoughtful response to something that was at least mildly facetious. :)

No, I've thought about that, and agree with you wholeheartedly. (Your comments about Riley and the vamp-hos strike up a plot bunny, which shall have to be taken care of, though.) Although Spike's presence on-screen is larger than life, he is noticeably shorter than most of the other guys. Oz might be the notable exception to the rule, but he was Willow's boyfriend, and so played to a different foil. ME seemed to feel that Buffy needed that big, strong guy to keep up with the Slayer, when in reality what you need is someone who just won't give up every time she gets a little bitchy. Buffy needed a truth-sayer, because no one else in her life filled that role.

Buffy and Spike fit together like yin and yang, if only the producers could have seen it.

You know, if you haven't read it already, I would highly recommend finding and reading "Seven Years of Buffy." It has some great essays that explore similar themes. The best defense of the Spuffy relationship along those lines was done by Jennifer Crusie. A great author in her own right, and obviously a very intelligent woman. :)

Buffy needed a truth-sayer, because no one else in her life filled that role.

And ironically, that was another reason she couldn't accept Spike's love. She wasn't ready for that kind of honesty.

I wasn't the person who brought up the vamp-ho issue, but I'm looking forward to the plot bunny! I never liked Riley.

I always said that Riley might be someone I would date (I'm from Nebraska myself, and don't mind corn-fed boys), but he was never right for Buffy.

Although, speakr2customrs is writing a Spara fic where there is a Buffy/Riley pairing. I think I could end up liking it in his hands.

Because my OTP partner for Riley is already dead in that fic, of course.

Well, of course. I love your Riley/OTP pairing in "Pandora's Boxer." That was just beautiful.

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There could also be a bit of that in her bit with the I word. After Spike's "death" , she realizes how badly she screwed up and the backlash from that is her hiding even deeper in the BSM/WLW deal by sinking even further down do that it's BSM/ Notch in the bedpost aka trophy girlfriend. After all that would make her in an even weaker position than she was before and act as self punishment for the way she screwed up with Spike. Also I don't remember any reference to her still slaying , so she's weakened herself by giving up that aspect of herself.


Also I have this idea of Spike yelling at Buffy for the I word post NFA and including info he found out that said the number of deaths by demon attack in Rome increased dramatically while she was there because no other Slayer was sent and the underworld figured that she had gone to the evil side and given them her blessing to kill (or something like that ) . An alternative idea is that she was slaying but wasn't as effective because sleeping with I word had left a distinct scent discernable to demons on her (similar to a dog pissing on a lamppost , and the I word is definitely a dog) and the range that the scent can be tracked is enough to provide an early warning system to the demons.





These two posts should remind the world that a hyperactive insomniac whose in heat cat is keeping her up even after she manages to get sleepy is a dangerous thing.

Plot bunnies! Plot bunnies are multiplying!!! Shame on you! ;)

The Immortal never surprised me. I mean, what does Buffy do when she loses one boyfriend? She gets another. (Or at least she's so busy screwing someone else that she doesn't need a new boyfriend.) That's just what Buffy does.

Plot bunnies! Plot bunnies are multiplying!!! Shame on you! ;)

Well I do love to raise the little buggers. The cat likes to play with them too. Maybe someone should adopt them so she doesn't have them for lunch.

You put a tremendous amount of thought into that, didn't you? Actually, I agree...Joss wanted the guy because of his talent, and then he had to be short and they just didn't know what to do with him...Ack, he can't be our romantic hero...Buffy comes to his chin...she must not reach higher than the bicep!!

Nah, actually it just hit me when one novel I was reading described the guy as "huge." Of course, everything reminds me of Buffy, so that's where the brain went and the theory was born.

LOL...never mind that chin-height is just about perfect.

Very interesting theory...gives you something to think about. Thanks for sharing.

Oh, and about the romance novel thing. I totally do that. Read romance, get irritated, switch to fantasy...nice to know someone else does that, lol.

LOL...it is nice to know that someone else does that too. They're fine for a while, and I have favorite authors, but when I try to branch out, all I get are the same stories, over and over again. Grr. If I want free PWPs I'll read fanfic. :)

bwahaha!

Thats so true. I hate how they are all the same. hee..pwp in fanfic..so true.

Although, I think one of the best authors for romance I've found (and a lot of time you find her fics in the literature section anyway) is Jennifer Crusie. She wrote one of the essays in the "Seven Seasons of Buffy" book, and it was the only pro-Spuffy essay in there. I gave her a shot, and she's awesome. Hilarious, witty, smart, and lots of snark. Next time you're in the mood for romance, give her a shot.

Thanks for the rec..I'll have to check her out. Especially if she's normally in the Literature section. I love romance, but some of those Lust novels are really too much.

plus..snark, always of the good

And a Spuffy fan. Where can you go wrong there?

Although, it does depend on the bookstore. Barnes and Noble always has her in Literature. I think Tattered Cover (might be just local to Denver) has her in romance. I haven't figured out their system yet.

*giggles* It's all become obvious!

What's scary is that my theory actually makes sense. :)

Not only does it make sense, but I think it may be what actually have happened. It also explains why Xander was pissed of all those years...NB seems tall enough to play a hero, right?

LOL...poor Xander got passed over even though he met the height requirements. That might have been type-casting, though, since Xander was supposed to have been kinda like Joss was in high school. Maybe Joss doesn't think of himself as a hero?

Maybe not. Poor Joss. :(

Hang on, if that's true, then surely that means there's a bit of Gary-Stu-ing going on with the most popular girl in school in the Xander/Cordelia relationship. Do we think that 'she' turned Joss down and he's getting his revenge?

Oooh...what a theory. And the dirty secret is out. :)

And all this time I just thought he liked that cheesy music.

:)

I think your theory is sound and has been proved true on testing. And it leads to another question (for me at least) --- Why is gargantuan become the standard for the male romantic lead? 6 feet tall is tall. 6 feet+ is humongous. Spike doesn't seem tall, but he's average if not an inch or so more. No shame in that. Why do authors of these works (books, movies, TV, whatever) have the perception that the collective female (I assume that's the primary target) audience wants to see the male lead have that extra 4 inches in his height?

So I'm humungous? (6 feet 2 inches).

Depends on the female lead in your life. Her opinion is the only one that truly matters. ;)

Yes, from my perspective (which is almost -- but not quite -- a foot closer to the ground than yours). But then, my perspective allows me to see things on the top shelf of the refrigerator that others (i.e. taller people) can't see without bending over. Life is good!

Being short myself, I don't mind average. Of course, I have tall friends who prefer gargantuan. Personally, at this point, I'd just take a guy of any height who could carry a decent conversation, had a nice sense of humor, and didn't quibble about paying for dinner. I'm an old-fashioned kind of girl. :)

Yeah, average is good. Average works, especially for us altitudinally compact folk. And the old-fashioned outlook never goes out of style!